NRG Systems is widely regarded as a world leader in design and manufacture of advanced, wind energy measurement technologies. Located at its recently completed, 45000 s.f. energy efficient manufacturing plant in Hinesburg, Vermont, NRG Systems' core product value is one supplier providing a complete System (the NRG NOW System): tower, sensors and recording instrument. NRG also offers low cost data logging instruments for small-scale wind studies. Visit www.nrgsystems.com for more information.

David looks forward to answering your questions. In the event a question is presented he cannot answer, he will utilize his colleagues within NRG and industry-wide contacts to provide you with a comprehensive answer.

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Question 1 (Brian Lavelle):  My understanding of wind in the U.S. currently, is that we are not yet competitive in the huge mega watt producers, but that Bergey and others are more competitive in some of the small and medium (if there is such a thing) turbines.   I'm going to be working closely with my electric coop in terms of future energy planning.   I've had a lengthy meeting with our electric coop's ceo, and he assures me he's aware that wind is on the way.  He welcomes the opportunity to hold down pollution and keep the energy dollars at home.

We know wind is in our future...I would like to hasten it.  My vision is not of the huge wind farms of the Buffalo Ridge and others, but of a much more broadly dispersed, smaller industry.  Smaller, but, nonetheless productive

Do you have any recommendations for small/medium wind equipment?  

I'm going to try to steer our coop into putting their (our) purchasing power into a revolving credit account for renewable equipment.  Understood is the economics of mass purchasing power, it drives plant expansions, etc.  We would need to contact Bergey, or whomever, and make a firm commitment for future equipment, based on the secure knowledge of a proven track record.

I can't think of a quicker way to get mass quantities of wind online.  However, the kind of commitment I have in mind leaves very little room for error, in terms of equipment choice.  Any thoughts, comments? 

Brian Lavelle
Spring Grove, MN. 507 498 3695
redtail@springgrove.coop

Answer (David): Hello Brian,

I do not think it can be said true that US megawatt class wind turbines are not competitive.  GE Wind (formerly Enron Wind) is winning plenty of competitive megawatt-scale bids, both in the US and project’s abroad – GE is completely sold out for 2005. 

The small and medium wind turbine-category is much different than the megawatt class.  I define small as rated capacity 10kW and under, and medium from there up to 250 kW. 

Bergey Windpower Co., in Norman OK, is putting together a reliable product.  In fact, NRG Systems has their 10kW on a hill behind our manufacturing facility, creating power for NRG Systems’ manufacturing plant, as I write.  This product, Model XL10 (kW), has been in production for several years.  Improvements to the blades made them much stronger and noise has been lessened by a change in blade profile. 

The medium-scale wind turbine market is wide open.  For economies of scale, over the last 10 years, the industry pushed the technology hard to build bigger, higher capacity generators.  As the capacity of wind turbines went up to above 1 MW, no manufacturers showed up to continue producing and improving the medium-range wind turbine.  Instead, thousands of then-large capacity turbines produced have been re-built and re-sold by third parties, specializing in older wind turbines.  There are a few companies doing this – some well, some not so well – buyers beware! 

I think that there is great opportunity in the medium-scale wind turbine market.  Once the machines worth rebuilding find their respective new homes, the market will ask for a competitively priced, reliable 250-500kW wind turbine, likely borrowing the proven technologies learned from development of the MW-class turbines.  This is definitely a market to watch as you make wind energy development plans for your rural electrical cooperative!

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Question 2 (Dean Zimmermann):

How much would it cost to investigate a site in the city of Minneapolis for its potential for a wind turbine?  What would be involved?  How long would it take?  Are there grants to do such a study? 

Dean Zimmermann

Answer (David): Hello Dean,

I understand Minneapolis is a windy city, but it would be unusual to site a wind turbine within the city borders, as the wind resource in cities is likely gusty and not as substantial a resource as outside the city.  It might be best to focus the City’s time and energy on purchasing green energy credits from Minnesota, or other Midwest-based wind farms, or supporting a wind project near Minneapolis.

If you remain interested in studying the wind, in the City or elsewhere, typical wind studies are conducted for at least one-year. 

The cost for the study varies, depending on the scale of the study.  A study for a small wind turbine, small defined as 1 kW, the NRG WindWatcher instrument would be a good low-cost choice, $395.  This instrument package includes a logger, anemometer, small, 16” mounting mast and 30m cable.  (However, 1kW wind turbines are not very expensive to begin with and many choose simply to buy the machine, without assessing the resource beforehand.) 

Moving up to the next class of ‘small’ wind turbine, such as a Bergey XL10 (10kW), is quite a bit more expensive (installed cost estimated at $30,000); at this price point, a wind resource study would be helpful to understand the project’s economic viability.  Since this turbine is likely most productive at heights 100’ or greater; the measurement study would be best conducted using the 30 Meter (100’) NRG NOW Wind Explorer System – the delivered cost is $3060, and a ginpole and 12V winch required to raise and lower the System, would be additional $910.

Both of these products can be reviewed on the NRG Web Site:

• NRG WindWatcher URL link as follows:
  http://www.nrgsystems.com/store/product_detail.php?cd=10&s=3392

• 30 Meter NRG NOW Wind Explorer System, URL:
  http://www.nrgsystems.com/store/product_detail.php?cd=14&s=1919-2607-2608

NRG Systems offers Systems up to 60 Meters (197’), for more thorough, commercial-scale (large wind) measurement studies.  

Again, see our Web Site or contact me directly for more information.

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Question 3 (JH Raichyk):

Has anyone measured the wind speeds along major highways?

Being from an area where wind is practically nil (except during tornados! which are becoming more frequent), it has seemed to me to be consistently windy whenever we're stopped along the road.  Similar to the river's wind, perhaps.  You could almost picture Savonius lined down the center median. And I'd bet the grid infrastructure along highways is fairly update.

I suppose you'd have to pick a suitable height to avoid birds, as I've read they seem to follow the roads.  But maybe that's even confirmation of wind potential.

JH Raichyk

Answer (David): Hello JH,

Wind speed increases with height above ground.  The higher up you go, the faster and less turbulent the wind becomes.  Turbulence would be a problem near a highway.  There is no known natural phenomenon that points to highways as windier than non-highway properties.

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Question 4 (David and Elaine Tobias): David

I understand you are the guy to talk with about liability insurance for a wind turbine.  We have a 10 kW here on our farm in Northeast Nebraska.  Stanton Co Pubic Power required $1,000,000 on it before we could go online with it.  Now the insurance co wouldn't renew it because we are unwilling to switch the rest of our property insurance to them.  They are more expensive, so we are not changing companies. Martin at the Center for Rural Affairs suggested we talk with you.

David and Elaine Tobias, Pilger, NE

Answer (David): Hi David and Elaine,

Unfortunately, I am not the person who can answer this question.  I suggest contacting the American Wind Energy Association for advice.  www.awea.org

Note (Windustry): Specifically, check out this advice from Wisconsin small turbine expert Mick Sagrillo- http://www.awea.org/faq/sagrillo/index.html.

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Question 5 (Jeff Aydelette):

I live on a fairly windy spot directly on a large river in eastern North Carolina. I know zilch about energy from the wind, but would like to get my feet wet with a small monetary outlay. What is the best way to get a small start -- even if it is just enough electricity to power, say, one light bulb on an occasional basis?

Thank you.

Jeff Aydelette
P.O. Box 231
Arapahoe, NC 28510

Answer (David): Hi Jeff,

The first step to understanding your resource is to measure it – the NRG WindWatcher was designed and priced to assist this endeavor – see this web link:

http://www.nrgsystems.com/store/product_detail.php?cd=10&s=3392

Or contact the NC Solar Center in Raleigh for their advice, see Web Site:

http://www.ncsc.ncsu.edu/

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Question 6 (Nabil A.):

Hello,
I live in the twin cities and own some windswept land in eastern S.D. What would be my most expeditious way to educate myself on what is necessary to move down the path to a healthy wind farm....where do I start.

thanks for any info.
-Nabil A.

Nabil Amra

Answer (David): Hello Nabil,

There are many sources available where one can learn much more about the subject – one particular writer who addresses the subject in easily understood language is wind energy expert and writer, Paul Gipe. 

Paul’s books provide the reader with a thorough understanding of fundamental wind energy principles.  For a general overview of the Paul’s books, see:

http://a9.com/Paul%20Gipe?src=amz

Specifically, Paul’s most comprehensive wind energy book, ‘Wind Power’ by Paul Gipe, see URL:

http://www.atlantasolar.com/product_info.php/products_id/1845

Another source is the American Wind Energy Association: www.awea.org

Note (Windustry): And the Windustry website: www.windustry.org! Also, look for wind energy workshops and events at www.windustry.org/calendar/default.htm.

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Question 7 (Lisa Daniels):

How much wind resource data is enough? How do you know when you have enough wind information to take to a bank for financing for a big project or to be sure of your own economic projections for a smaller project?  Are there any rules of thumb for how much wind measurement you should do for different sized projects?

-Lisa Daniels

Answer (David): Hello Lisa,

All great questions!

What I commonly see are project meteorological study volume (how many systems are sold) and its typical configuration (scale of study).  I can safely state that the larger the project financing, the more systems are purchased and the scale is more sophisticated (more and higher towers). 

The recommended term of the study is typically at least one year, though that may vary depending on site location, or finance requirements.  It is therefore critical to meet with those whom you seek financing from, well before conducting the measurement study. 

Choosing the right equipment, and specifically using industry standard measurement tools is essential.  Sometimes, customers fail to learn much about the equipment they are using, and belatedly discover their most critical sensor measuring the wind resource, the anemometer, was insufficiently accurate for wind study, or the barn they strapped their sensor to for three years was an unsuitable platform for measuring their wind resource. 

Summary: Know where you are going, preferably before you get there!

In regard to the volume of measurement, geography plays a strong hand.  An irregular geography is generally more difficult to measure than a flat plain.  When a million dollar wind turbine is erected, moving it is not an option – before construction, the resource needs to be well understood at the near same location as the prospective turbine. 

Rules of thumb, summarized:

• Know where you are going before you get there – meet with financial sources to assure the measurement platform meets their requirements

• Make sure your study uses industry-standard sensors

• Measurement at near-same location and height as where turbine will be located

• Hilly, irregular terrain typically requires more measurement to determine best location for setting the turbine; conversely, flat terrain can utilize less measurement equipment and still obtain a satisfactory study result

• Double the wind speed, cube the power - so find the highest wind site!

Of course, seek a third-party wind energy consultant to help you – their experience will far outweigh their cost and will assure you are on the right track from the start.  Contact American Wind Energy Association for referrals.  www.awea.org

Question 8 (Stan Racis):

Hi David,

Could you comment on the importance of actual wind measurements for the specific site (and height) in question vs. relying on software generated wind profiles?  Is this a more (or less) important issue when we are talking about smaller rural development sites (<2M in total)?

Thanks,

Stan Racis
Director, Special Projects
Sabre Communications Corp.
Sioux City, IA

Answer (David): Hi Stan,

I understand the resolution of the meso-scale maps available is improving, but are no substitute for physical, at-the-site study.  While the meso-scale studies tell you much about the wind resource in a given region and let you identify promising areas, it cannot tell you all the wind characteristics in the specific location where the wind turbine will be installed.  Local wind characteristics need to be well-understood; many sites might indicate a strong wind resource, but actual on-site measurements fills in important wind characteristics that present challenges to the wind turbine mechanics, e.g. turbulence intensity (rapid changes in wind speed and direction).

This may not be the case for smaller scale development, depending on sensitivity to price.   As the cost of the machine goes down, sensitivity to the productivity of the resource may also be less (while sensitivity to the cost of the study is increased). 

NRG Systems designed the low-cost NRG WindWatcher specifically to help measure for small wind turbine sites, for more information, see NRG Web Site link:

http://www.nrgsystems.com/store/product_detail.php?cd=10&s=3392

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Question 9 (Robert Myers):

When do the mechanical problems start, with these turbines ?  15 years,  before ? later,? and what happens when they are no longer functional.? 

There is a developing track record over the years, granted, technology and engineering is improving.

Robert Myers

Answer (David): Hello Robert,

Commercial scale wind turbines are designed with a 20-year life.  I do not have the industry expertise to answer your question, as I am specifically involved in the measurement tools used by the industry to measure and quantify the wind energy resource.

Note (Windustry): This can be a hard question to answer because the technology is evolving so quickly and the turbines available today generally are not the same designs that have 15 or 20 year track records. A wind turbine manufacturer should be able to provide some projections on long term operations and maintenance costs. It also is helpful to collect anecdotal information from people who actually operate wind farms. Contact Windustry if you would like some contacts.

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Question 10 (Michael Noble):

A business leader in Northeast Minneapolis asked if he could site a turbine at his firm. My initial instinct was to say “no, why not site it someplace that’s got a great resource.” But then it was obvious that as a self-generator, he would be receiving the retail rate for electricity, up to his bill of $3500 per month. Now I am not so sure that a hmmm…Class 3-?? Site wouldn’t be so bad.  Any ideas off hand? Is there any real show stopper for an urban industrial location siting?

What does a turn-key installation of a wind monitoring site cost, and is it pretty critical at such a marginal site to get a direct 80 meter measurement?

-Michael Noble

Answer (David): Hello Michael,

The wind as energy resource means can change meaning, depending on the your goals.  Some might want to display their affection for this new form of green energy generation, regardless of economic payback.  Others might believe their resource is adequate and the electricity production would therefore significantly offset their bills, and this is where a measurement study would be recommended.

Depending on the total budget of the project, the site resource study could be conducted for a few hundred dollars (e.g. use the NRG WindWatcher with anemometer mounted to a communications structure on a building roof), or about $10,000 for a 60 Meter tilt-up Tower, multiple sensors feeding data to a data logger. 

80 meter measurements are becoming more typical for the industry.  Because of the expense (+$40,000) for a tower of this height, it is typically erected only after a site is proven at lower tower measuring heights, like 40m or 50m. 

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Question 11 (Phil Schmidt):

Dave,

How do you figure straight steel monopole (diameter and wall thickness) for different size wind turbines?  Telescoping type pole in particular.

Thanks,

Phil Schmidt

Answer (David): Hi Phil,

I’m sorry, I do not have the expertise to answer your question, as I am specifically involved I the measurement tools used by the industry to measure and quantify the wind energy resource.  Telescoping poles should be used with caution in sites with icing. 

Note (Windustry): This is a good question for a wind turbine manufacturer or a tower manufacturer. Most turbine suppliers will provide options on towers that work with their machines.

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Question 12 (Marty Clinch):

Is there going to be any kind of grant program for "Green Schools" (schools that use renewable energy resources in the construction of their buildings)?

If so, I have a school in my area that could use such a grant.

Thank you

Marty Clinch

Answer (David): Hi Marty,

Many states have laws on the books that provide incentives for renewable building construction and many forms of renewable energy production.  You might want to check what your particular state offers.

NRG Systems offers an educational discount on its wind measurement systems for documented wind energy study curriculums.  Please contact me if you are interested.

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Question 13 (JH Raichyk):

Is there a point at which small investors or even consumers can impact the adoption of wind energy or is everything dependent on big players?  Projects like Rolling Thunder surface in the news then disappear off radar without signaling any small player options to keep progress coming.  Maybe there are none in projects that size.  So what about small starting points?

One recent article in Science News suggested that wind was doable by individual small farmers, if they worked together to get through the banking and regulatory paperwork EXCEPT for the problem of connecting to the grid.

At a million per mile, that limits individual action, though otherwise the option sounded almost idyllic.  Is there some source or simple way that would identify which farmers could make the move, maybe a map of grid arteries or visual identifying method?  I suppose if there were, Homeland Security would make access difficult, yet it would seem very worthwhile.

JH Raichyk

Answer (David): Hello JH,

It is true that the smaller investors are not going to have the same affect on signaling demand as a large entity, such as a major regional utility or investment firm.

But the current trend is positive, and renewable energy is now being mandated by a number of states through Renewable Portfolio Standards (RPS).  Typical RPS’s require by law a utility produce a percentage of their power generation via recognized, renewable power generation sources.  For instance, the current State of New York RPS requires 25% of power generation from renewable sources by 2013.

A recent study showed that in the next 15 years, 52,000 megawatts of power will need to be renewable, based on the current State RPS laws on the books.  This is exciting news for the renewable energy industry, and the wind industry in particular as wind is the most economic of renewable energy and therefore likely to gain a lion’s share of the RPS mandate (share estimated at 40,000 mW).

You can support wind energy by contacting your elected representatives, buying green power from your utility and writing letters to newspapers. 

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Question 14 (Greg T.):

What do you think the power curve will look like in three years and in five years for 1.5M - 2.5M turbines? 

Greg T.

Answer (David): I have no idea; it is not in the realm of my expertise.

Note (Windustry): You can find some good information on power curves for machines currently available in some of the economic calculator tools available here: www.windustry.org/calculator/default.htm or in some of the recent economic studies on community wind: www.windustry.org/community/default.htm#Studies.

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Question 15 (Sarah): What is the most cost effective way to get wind resource information for a small wind system, say 10-20 kW?

-Sarah Johnson

Answer (David): The NRG WindWatcher is an exciting new product that is low-cost, yet will provide the user with enough information to make the decision whether to purchase a small wind turbine.

See this link:

http://www.nrgsystems.com/store/product_detail.php?cd=10&s=3392

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Question 16 (Tom): Do you know if there’s a market for used MET towers? Does your company sell used equipment?

-Tom, Montana

Answer (David): This question does come along from time-to-time.

NRG does not sell used meteorological towers.  I do not have any resource to offer you for a market for used NRG meteorological towers.  I do not think there is much economic gain in a used market for this type of product, as the towers such as the type NRG manufactures are relatively low-cost, and are also expensive to re-package and ship to a new destination far from the original site.  When you review the shipping cost alone, and the wear and tear on a system installed for more than a short period of time (typical site measurements last at least 1-2 years), the tower components are beginning to reach the end of their useful life.  Also, from a liability perspective, common construction practice is to scrap products that represent a significant safety concern, especially when the history of the product is unknown. 

Personally, I would not be comfortable buying a used tower unless I knew the previous owner used installation practices that did not stress the tower components, and no catastrophic failure had ever occurred to any of the critical components, e.g. guy wires and steel tube sections.

The data logging instruments on the tower have a longer useful life and can be shipped cheaply UPS or via another carrier.

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Thanks again for all of your questions. : )

David Simkins

NRG Systems Sales – US Accounts

David can be contacted at davids@nrgsystems.com.